Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Pappy's Kernel Seeds Part II <CLOSED>Please use new thread
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 16, 17, 18 ... 22, 23, 24  Next  
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Unsupported Software
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On doing all modular kernels; no thanks. While it shouldn't matter whether or not one uses modules, in my experience, it does. For instance, I had a user with a computer that kept dropping the USB. After changing to compiled in, no more problems. I've noted some other issues that are fixed by drivers or code being compiled into the kernel.

Also, an all module kernel adds a built in slow-down called, modprobe. If a module gets switched off, modprobe has to turn it back on again if needed. That means a call to modprobe in addition to the "turn me on" signal. One more level of math=another level of slowdown=another possible place for trouble=no thanks.

Of course, modules are needed, and desired in some cases. Wireless adapters prefer their drivers in module form so arguments can be passed to said modules.`Most wireless devices won't work if their driver is compiled in.

One of the main ideas behind the seed continues to be stability. The way the kernels are set up results in stable operation. I like to think that some of that is due to all the time I've spent killing then resurrecting my computers with less than stable kernel setups.

Besides all that, if you want an all module kernel, just enter make allmodconfig. Then you can go through and cut out all the things you don't need. That's just way too much like genkernel for my tastes.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gh0str1d3r
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:

As far as setting up different .configs for lappys and deskies, thanks, but no thanks. Even though I've been working on perfecting and streamlining the production process, considering the sheer number of .configs that exist on the site now (six megs and growing), doing something like that would be insane on my part.


Ok I agree it would be a lot of work and probably conflict with the idea of a kernel seed. I was just thinking about a remark on this "how to use kernel seeds" site

http://kernel-seeds.org/working.html

that says something like "If you are using a laptop, you should activate battery support and have a look at the wireless section in networking options" because as far as I understood that page, one should be able to go through these 6 steps and get a working kernel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheater1034
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 1558

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cach0rr0 wrote:
cheater1034 wrote:

build with frame pointers, atleast for x86_64 but probably for x86 too


I know that's useful for helping you kernel dev folk debug things.
Something about stack traces being more useful - I've only ever done a small bit of debugging anything, and on Windows only; I remember the difference when I had symbols loaded, being able to see undecorated function names. Anyway...

I'm going to change mine since I use zen.git and want to give feedback if/when it's helpful, but I want to make sure - is this the only one to tick?

Code:

Symbol: FRAME_POINTER [=n]
  │ Prompt: Compile the kernel with frame pointers


Because these are all the ones i find searching for "pointer"

Code:

Symbol: SCHED_OMIT_FRAME_POINTER [=y]
Symbol: ARCH_WANT_FRAME_POINTERS [=y]
Symbol: ILLEGAL_POINTER_VALUE [=0xdead000000000000]
Symbol: GENERIC_BUG_RELATIVE_POINTERS [=y]
Symbol: FRAME_POINTER [=n]


Yeah config_frame_pointer is the one, stack traces are useless without it - and it doesnt affect performance at all, atleast not on x86_64 - there's no tests to prove it does on x86 but it *could* slow things down a little bit, but not by much if it did.

---

As far as modular config, (allmodconfig is bad starting point)- allnoconfig is a better starting point, or from a kernel seed in this case
Anyway, just a thought - certainly not everything should be a module, but certain things (like usb) i think are better off as modules - as far as the unloading automatically, must have been some other bug 8O
_________________
IRC!: #zen-sources on irc.rizon.net
zen-kernel.org
--
Lost in android development land.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shining Arcanine
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought on x86_64, frame pointers were disabled by default at -O2 because they are not needed for debugging.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
as far as the unloading automatically, must have been some other bug 8O


All I know is that the issue went away by compiling the drivers in. If there was an underlying bug that was brought about by the USB driver being modular, compiling the driver into the kernel stopped it from happening. I'll probably never know. As long as the user was happy, and I believe that was the case, that was all that mattered.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gh0str1d3r wrote:
pappy_mcfae wrote:

As far as setting up different .configs for lappys and deskies, thanks, but no thanks. Even though I've been working on perfecting and streamlining the production process, considering the sheer number of .configs that exist on the site now (six megs and growing), doing something like that would be insane on my part.


Ok I agree it would be a lot of work and probably conflict with the idea of a kernel seed. I was just thinking about a remark on this "how to use kernel seeds" site

http://kernel-seeds.org/working.html

that says something like "If you are using a laptop, you should activate battery support and have a look at the wireless section in networking options" because as far as I understood that page, one should be able to go through these 6 steps and get a working kernel.


Most folks have done ok. I know there are some deficiencies, and I do plan on redoing that page. Right now, I'm in the midst of getting my "new" web server up, running, able to do an emerge -aev world without puking all over itself. That has required just a bit of attention the past couple days. I will see about finishing up the next settings page this week, and perhaps I'll do some more work on the how-to over the weekend.

Of course, that's all contingent upon the new server being able to handle 24 hours of operation without rebooting. I think I've got it to a point where it can do that.

It's my first AMD-based machine. It took some time to figure what was up with the mobo and its ability to clock. Now that the chip is clocking correctly, the machine overall seems more solid and stable. Got my fingers crossed that things stay rosy.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shining Arcanine
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
It's my first AMD-based machine. It took some time to figure what was up with the mobo and its ability to clock. Now that the chip is clocking correctly, the machine overall seems more solid and stable. Got my fingers crossed that things stay rosy.


Why did you go with an AMD machine? They are slower than the equivalent Intel machine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43072
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine,

AMD have had a better performance/price ratio than Intel for a long time.
Intel may be faster but you pay a premium for that speed.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moriah
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 2117
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been running both Intel and AMD in both 32-bit and 64-bit flavors for years now. Unless I have a special need, the thing that drives a purchase of a new machine is more likely to be how much ram it will take, how many sata ports does it have on the motherboard, whether it has on board video that is minimally interfering in boot console mode (for headless servers), how many sockets and how many cores will it take, etc. than what brand of cpu it uses.

I usually approach buying a motherboard like buying a head of cabage at the produce department. What does it look like, and how much does it cost? These, along with "will it fit in the case I have for it" are the questions that drive my purchase.

I guess I am pretty pragmatic about the whole thing. I am running 16 machines right now, and only 3 of them have their own displays. The rest are on a KVM with KVM-over-IP so I can remotely manage them when I am out of town. I am not a gamer, so video performance to me means high resolution in pixels, and lots of text on the screen for me to stare at scratching my head as I try to figure out why something isn'y working. :?
_________________
The MyWord KJV Bible tool is at http://www.elilabs.com/~myword

Foghorn Leghorn is a Warner Bros. cartoon character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43072
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah,

You could add to that that "all CPUs wait at the same speed" and thats what most CPUS do most of the time.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why an AMD machine? Glad you asked.

A friend who lives in the complex knows I'm a electro-head. His computer, an HPa320, recently died. Since his lover was planning on getting a new computer anyway, he told me to keep the remains if it would require major time and effort to repair. The mobo in said system was a no-post. That told the tale. I wound up with a "new" machine.

I have experience with AMD processors, as in Windoze 98, k6's, and VIA chipset motherboards. When I say, "VIA chipset motherboards," I'm talking about the VIA mobo's that had more bugs in them than a prostitute's bed. We're talking blue screens of death for updating any driver, or just from running long enough to get the chipsets hot.

The debate about AMD and Intel chips being faster is a sliding scale reality anyway. It depends on the generation of the chips. In some generations, Intel was faster. In others, AMD was. Making blanket statements about chip speed is kind of a null argument to me at this point.

I can say with every degree of certainty that this machine is MUCH faster than the P-IV I had to revive for my harp teacher's lover. Now that it's clocked up to it's rated chip speed, there is no doubt that it will be worlds faster than the present web server, which is a gateway P-III that bears a license sticker for Windoze ME!

Once again, speed is relative. This new machine, once testing is finished, will do what the present web server does...sit there, make some fan noise, and serve the kernel-seeds.org web page. It will do so headless.

It will also do so at double the speed of the present system (at least). And, when I get two one Gig sticks, and it moves up to two gigs of ram, it will only be faster.

Now, if I had money, and my 'drothers, I would be discussing the overkill of having an intel i7 as my web server. Since I am a lone wolf so to speak, I have to take what I can get. Since no one has yet to donate to the site, I am left to do what I can when I have a paying gig.

All I had to pay was thirty bucks for the board, and ten for shipping. Since I had all the other parts to make a machine, and since I found a good deal on a mobo, I got myself a "new" web server.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot. I was actually here to talk about the new server.

The instabilities that were making me wonder whether I blew my money have been cured. Thanks to some perseverance on my part, I've found a BIOS update that fixes the issues I was having with the chip clocking properly. Once that issue cleared, the instability was gone. We're talking a BIOS hack that works better than the original BIOS. I'm amazed.

Anyway, if it passes muster on surviving 24 hours without a reboot or death, it will be put into service. If all goes well, the switch over should take place tomorrow. Apache is already installed, and it has been checked. All I have to do is switch the router to the IP address of the new server, and I will have made a business investment that helped my business. We're presently at t-minus 12 hours, 30 minutes.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moriah
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 2117
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would certainly keep the old server around for a couple of weeks or so before making any changes to it, scrapping it for parts, etc. A 24 hr test for a server is pretty light weight in my opinion...
_________________
The MyWord KJV Bible tool is at http://www.elilabs.com/~myword

Foghorn Leghorn is a Warner Bros. cartoon character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43072
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae,

All thats required of a server at home is that it can saturate your upstream pipe. Any more is wasted.
I bet your P3 could do that.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moriah
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 2117
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy, you forget that pappy also has to install gentoo on that server, and keep it up to date. Keeping it up to date is especially important for an internet facing server. Because of the need to do frequent emerges, he needs a machine that will not bore him to tears as well as one that will fill his upstream pipe. :wink:

I actually ran a 75 MHz Packard-Bell P2 box as a secondary name server for several years, but it got so that keeping it up to date took longer than the time between updates! :o
_________________
The MyWord KJV Bible tool is at http://www.elilabs.com/~myword

Foghorn Leghorn is a Warner Bros. cartoon character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering the speed at which the internet moves for us, yes, perhaps it is a bit of overkill. However, I would like to start being able to use CMS packages to work with the page instead of straight html. More horsepower under the hood means quicker turnaround when using said CMS packages and mysql, the heart of them all.

Since the machine will be headless, the speed of what I see on the screen is meaningless. All the machine will have going to it is a net cable and the power cord. What I'm concerned with is how fast it can turn a bunch of formatted data into a web page, and send the result to a user.

And I will keep the old server around for a bit. However, I am planning to sell it on Ebay. A working computer is nothing to sneeze at, and one that was worked on by me is a real treasure to behold. :)

Now back to reality.

I will announce when I make the changeover so all interested parties can come and see if the page loads any faster.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The deed is done. The old web server is now nothing more than a place for the new server to sit. The site is now running off the new server. Please drop by, and while your there, check out the new donation page. Let's push the numbers through the roof.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moriah
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 2117
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pappy, that's not a dust bunny; that's a dust GORILLA!!! :roll:
_________________
The MyWord KJV Bible tool is at http://www.elilabs.com/~myword

Foghorn Leghorn is a Warner Bros. cartoon character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cach0rr0
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 4123
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

be careful with most of the common CMS's.

Most all quite feature rich and handy, but a security nightmare. After I got dinged myself, I moved away from 'em completely, and am actually back to basic html/css.
Anything I have that's a common CMS, I have tucked away behind htaccess/htpasswd

No time to go into detail at the moment unfortunately, am at my boss's house so I can't do my usual routine of slacking off all day and trolling the forums.

(though, I did write an ebuild for our proprietary product, and am going to try and get our guys converted to the gentoo cult ^_^ )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah wrote:
Pappy, that's not a dust bunny; that's a dust GORILLA!!! :roll:


Believe it or not, that is not the largest computer-borne dust bunny I've ever seen.

When I was working for Unisys in Ohio, I opened an IBM PS/2 286 desktop model, and the entire inside was a dust bunny. Literally, from the back of the floppy drives to the outlet of the power supply was one large dust bunny. I carefully extracted it, and when turned upside down, it was a perfect negative of the inside of the machine. I wish I'd have had a camera for that one.

Kicker: the machine was still running perfectly. Go fig!

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cach0rr0 wrote:
be careful with most of the common CMS's.

Most all quite feature rich and handy, but a security nightmare. After I got dinged myself, I moved away from 'em completely, and am actually back to basic html/css.
Anything I have that's a common CMS, I have tucked away behind htaccess/htpasswd

No time to go into detail at the moment unfortunately, am at my boss's house so I can't do my usual routine of slacking off all day and trolling the forums.

(though, I did write an ebuild for our proprietary product, and am going to try and get our guys converted to the gentoo cult ^_^ )


Good luck on the conversion.

I've been wary of CMS as well. Perhaps we compare notes on making cooler things happen. Considering the almost impenetrable security of straight HTML, I would like to stay in that area. However, if you know of things to do to make things look and work better, I'm all eyes.

hehehe

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now for the real reason I'm here.

By now, I'll assume that most folks here have paid a visit to the new server. If not, please do. You folks in Europe should also give the new server a try. It's running great!

When you get to the site, visit the new donation page. It's cool, funny (I hope), and I've just had someone prove that the button does actually work. So, I thought perhaps as an added bonus, until I put the page of "Above and Beyond" together, I'd just publicly praise those who have donated.

Therefore, I offer a large thank you to geburns!!!

Your donation was most appreciated, and most welcomed. I thank you publicly for supporting kernel-seeds.org.

Also to a large thank you to Moriah for reminding me that I'm also into barter, and for the parts he's donated, as soon as they arrive.

Once again, your donation, as well as your reminder, are most welcomed. Thank you for supporting kernel-seeds.org.

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pappy_mcfae
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 5997
Location: Pomona, California.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New zen .configs! Woohoo! My favorites!

Yes, I've just uploaded the .configs for 2.6.32-zen7 and 2.6.33-zen1 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Zen heads need wait no longer

Cheers,
Pappy
_________________
This space left intentionally blank, except for these ASCII symbols.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
geburns
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 65
Location: st paul, mn

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
New zen .configs! Woohoo! My favorites!

Yes, I've just uploaded the .configs for 2.6.32-zen7 and 2.6.33-zen1 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Zen heads need wait no longer
Cheers,
Pappy


would you recommend .33 over .32? i'm currently using gentoo-2.6.32

-=glenn=-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moriah
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 2117
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In looking into tuxonice for my laptop (see https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-809431-highlight-.html) I noticed:
Code:

gehazi ~ # emerge -s tuxonice
Searching...   
[ Results for search key : tuxonice ]
[ Applications found : 2 ]

*  sys-apps/tuxonice-userui
      Latest version available: 1.0
      Latest version installed: 1.0
      Size of files: 65 kB
      Homepage:      http://www.tuxonice.net
      Description:   User Interface for TuxOnIce
      License:       GPL-2

*  sys-kernel/tuxonice-sources
      Latest version available: 2.6.30-r6
      Latest version installed: 2.6.30-r6
      Size of files: 58,304 kB
      Homepage:      http://dev.gentoo.org/~dsd/genpatches/ http://www.tuxonice.net
      Description:   TuxOnIce + Gentoo patchset sources
      License:       GPL-2

gehazi ~ #

but I am running:
Code:

gehazi ~ # uname -a
Linux gehazi 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 #44 SMP PREEMPT Sun Feb 28 20:35:58 EST 2010 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9400 @ 2.53GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
gehazi ~ #

When is tuxonice-31 supposed to come into the mainline? I don't really want to rock the boat with what seems to be a very stable kernel configuration, but I would also like to have hibernation working.

What to do? :?:
_________________
The MyWord KJV Bible tool is at http://www.elilabs.com/~myword

Foghorn Leghorn is a Warner Bros. cartoon character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Unsupported Software All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 16, 17, 18 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
Page 17 of 24

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum