Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Powerbook Thermal issues
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo on PPC
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Powerbook Thermal issues Reply with quote

I apologize to the mods if this should've gone in this thread instead, but I felt that I was hijacking that thread, and anyway this is sufficiently different.

First of all I think this bug is a really serious bug in therm_adt746x and the current kernel sources pulled by default on the stable ppc tree do not have that patch. I am not sure what the policy is here, but if there' s a developer reading this probably that should be changed in the gentoo-sources package, or perhaps the next kernel should be unmasked. I'll file a bug upstream just in case.

Now comes my actual problem: I have a powerbook g4 1.3 Ghz. After applying that patch the fans work fine with the module loaded, but compiling anything for more than a few minutes with the fans at full speed the computer shuts down automatically. I have to do any compilation using the powersave governor, which takes forever. I haven't tested viewing for example a flash video, but I'd assume that the computer would shut down anyway. Could this be a thermal paste issue? is this common on powerbooks? Is there anything that I could try before opening the case and trying to change the themal-paste?

Thanks,

R.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringo
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First of all I think this bug is a really serious bug in therm_adt746x and the current kernel sources pulled by default on the stable ppc tree do not have that patch


if that´s true open a bug about it pls.
The patch has been applied at least in upstream´s stable linux tree, i don´t know when though, wasn´t able to find the commit :

http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.32.y.git;a=blob;f=drivers/macintosh/therm_adt746x.c;h=386a7972111d9f88b4e13285d1c810ef29647114;hb=HEAD

That said, i think i have the same powerbook and never have experienced the problem you are describing. F.ex. this lappy compiled kde4 two weeks ago, which took quite a lot of time, and it didn´t reboot or shut down or anything.

Maybe a hardware issue, i´d say open it and have a look.

cheers
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent some time with this without any solution. A priori if I switch to userspace governor and use something like powernowd I could step the processor down whenever it gets hot. Do you guys know if there is already a daemon that does this?

R.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringo
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you mean to step down the processor automatically when it gets too hot ? i´m not sure there is any daemon that can do this by default but maybe you can write a simple script that looks for the cpu temp and changes to the powersave governor if the temperature exceeds temp X.

But i would really have a look to the hardware itself first and make sure everything is configured correctly before starting to mess with solutions you might not need at all.

cheers
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask you at what temperatures does your system usually work? Running at powersave my system idles at 45C and compiles at around 54C. Running 1.3GHz The system idles at 54C and shuts down at 70C.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringo
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will let you know as soon as i´m in front of the powerbook, which can take a while because it is actually my wife´s lappy.

cheers
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand, :) this computer is also my wife's. I took away Mac OS X cause she kept complaining about the fans going like crazy and the system being slow when watching flash for example (something I doubt anyone with an old g4 can do anyway).

R.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringo
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i could only test with the performance governor :

Code:
cat /sys/devices/temperatures/sensor*_temperature
51
50


which is what i got when it was compiling yesterday.

i was able to find the commit of the patch to the stable tree :
http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.31.y.git;a=commit;h=0b1b72ba20a7d73136f57bb57ff8e2f3f79e62ad

Which means kernels newer than 2.6.31.9 should have this fix already included.
And i think i´m hitting an issue related to this, without this fix the ondemand governor is apparently unuseable here. Everytime i try to switch to it i get :

Code:
ondemand governor failed, too long transition latency of HW, fallback to performance governor


Can you confirm the ondemand governor works for you with this fix applied ?
Anyways, we should open a bug reporting this problem, probably stable gentoo-sources have to be bumped. Are you willing to open a bug or do you want me to do it ?

What is you exact powerbook model BTW ? Mine is :

Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
cpu             : 7447A, altivec supported
clock           : 1333.333000MHz
revision        : 1.1 (pvr 8003 0101)
bogomips        : 73.72
timebase        : 18432000
platform        : PowerMac
model           : PowerBook5,4
machine         : PowerBook5,4
motherboard     : PowerBook5,4 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh
detected as     : 287 (PowerBook G4 15")
pmac flags      : 0000001b
L2 cache        : 512K unified
pmac-generation : NewWorld
Memory          : 1536 MB


Quote:
system being slow when watching flash for example (something I doubt anyone with an old g4 can do anyway).


you could try with gnash or swfdec but yeah, system is quite unuseable if you watch a video in youtube f.ex.

thanks !
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gringo wrote:

Code:
cat /sys/devices/temperatures/sensor*_temperature
51
50


which is what i got when it was compiling yesterday.


That is disturbing, mine get to over 70 quite fast on performance (after some time of activity that is)

gringo wrote:

i was able to find the commit of the patch to the stable tree :
http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.31.y.git;a=commit;h=0b1b72ba20a7d73136f57bb57ff8e2f3f79e62ad

Which means kernels newer than 2.6.31.9 should have this fix already included.

I applied the patch directly on 2.6.31-gentoo-r6, otherwise the machine would be completely unusable. Still the temps ramp up quite fast.

gringo wrote:

Can you confirm the ondemand governor works for you with this fix applied ?
Anyways, we should open a bug reporting this problem, probably stable gentoo-sources have to be bumped. Are you willing to open a bug or do you want me to do it ?

I didn't compile the ondemand governor, so I can't check it, but I'll compile a new kernel next week so I'll be able to let you know. As for a bug report. I opened one when I started this thread and It has ben noticed, there'll be some delay until they keyword the newer kernels.

gringo wrote:

What is you exact powerbook model BTW ? Mine is :


Mine is smaller, but that difference should not explain the temperatures.
Code:
$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor   : 0
cpu      : 7447A, altivec supported
clock      : 1333.333000MHz
revision   : 1.1 (pvr 8003 0101)
bogomips   : 73.72
timebase   : 18432000
platform   : PowerMac
model      : PowerBook6,4
machine      : PowerBook6,4
motherboard   : PowerBook6,4 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh
detected as   : 287 (PowerBook G4 12")
pmac flags   : 0000001a
L2 cache   : 512K unified
pmac-generation   : NewWorld
Memory      : 512 MB


I spent the last 5 minutes writing this post since turning on the machine. The temps went from 33 - 41 to 41-55 like nothing. I doubt it's a faulty sensor cause they are quite responsive to system status. I guess I won't be able to avoid opening this one. The problem is that getting to the fan and thermal pads on this one is a mess!

Thanks,

R.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringo
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is disturbing, mine get to over 70 quite fast on performance (after some time of activity that is)


you mean without running any cpu intensive tasks ? If the answer is yes i´m quite sure you have an hardware issue, hopefully nothing serious.

Quote:
I didn't compile the ondemand governor, so I can't check it, but I'll compile a new kernel next week so I'll be able to let you know


will try to update to 2.6.33 this weekend too to see whats happens there. Maybe it´s sth. unrelated after all.

Quote:
As for a bug report. I opened one when I started this thread and It has ben noticed, there'll be some delay until they keyword the newer kernels.


ok, thanks.

Quote:
I guess I won't be able to avoid opening this one


yes, i would start doing that too. Good luck :-)

cheers
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gringo wrote:

you mean without running any cpu intensive tasks ? If the answer is yes i´m quite sure you have an hardware issue, hopefully nothing serious.


Nope, just when I am compiling it gets to 70C. Anyway, I opened to machine just to find out that they use thermal pads and not paste on these models. So now things should be even worse (although I can't notice any difference in the thermal issues).

To make things worse, I must've loosened the battery for the clock or something cause now I can't set the date across boots. I can't find the error message in dmesg nor in /var/log/messages, but it says something like error 22, invalid argument at boot time and sets the clock at 1903.... I guess I'll have to open it again.

R.

PS. by the way, a newer kernel got marked stable with the above-mentioned patch to adt746x
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Massimo B.
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1563
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..just watching this new discussion about THERM_ADT746X:
Did you know that the PowerBook G4 has 2 fans? Just set LIMIT_ADJUST to very low, so both fans are starting to maximum speed.
/usr/local/bin/setfan.sh:
#!/bin/bash
#LIMIT_ADJUST=-30
LIMIT_ADJUST=7
FAN_SPEED=32
echo "Setting fan speed..."
echo $LIMIT_ADJUST >> /sys/devices/temperatures/limit_adjust
echo LIMIT_ADJUST: `cat /sys/devices/temperatures/limit_adjust`
echo $FAN_SPEED >> /sys/devices/temperatures/specified_fan_speed
echo FAN_SPEED: `cat /sys/devices/temperatures/specified_fan_speed`

Currently with normal parameters the second fan is stopped all the time. Did anyone start patching our THERM_ADT746X to support both fan speeds? I guess running both fans moderatly would make less noise than only one single fan.
I usually set LIMIT_ADJUST to +7 so that the fan is not running more often than on OSX trying to get the machine cooler on Linux than on OSX. With this setting while on performance_governor at 1666 MHz and emerging the temperatur gets about
Code:
# cat /sys/devices/temperatures/sensor[12]_temperature
60
55

_________________
ppc:PowerBook5,8 15"(1440)-G4/1.67,2G|amd64:HP EliteBook 8560w,i7-2620M,16G|Acer Z5610 (Core2QuadQ8200),8G|amd64-prefix:OpenSuse|HP EliteDesk 800G1 i7-4790|HP Compaq Pro 6300 i7-3770
Lila-Theme


Last edited by Massimo B. on Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're confused about the model. You have a 15" one, while mine is the 12" with the nvidia chipset, this one has only one fan (unless there's another one hidden that I couldn't find when I opened it :) ). Also, setting the limit_adjust to a negative number (although I am not sure if this is even possible I could patch the module directly) would do worse, since the fan would spin at full speed but the shutdown would happen before as well. Even with the fan at full throttle, the temperature reaches 70 easily on my system while compiling. Now I'm confused about not being able to set the time at boot. I'll open it again and then start a new thread I guess.

R.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringo
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to say that i upgraded to 2.6.33 and at least the issue i explained above isn´t fixed here ( i mean, i cannot use the ondemand governor).
On the other hand kms looks much much more stable now, yay ! :-)

as a side note :

Quote:
Did you know that the PowerBook G4 has 2 fans?


mine says it actually has three sensors, but only two of them are accesible in the /sys interface.

cheers
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bertaboy
l33t
l33t


Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar issues when trying to install from CD on my 1.3Ghz PB. The computer would hard-kill itself whenever I did any commands which took a while to finish (noticed this when trying to run dd and tar at the same time, again when I actually got to compiling packages). At first, I worked around the problem by suspending and resuming the commands. Then I finally realized that I could change the governor. This problem somehow went away once I installed a kernel from Portage and was able to stop using the one from the CD. gentoo-sources-2.6.31-r6 should be working for your computer (I'm pretty sure- I've since installed FC13 on the powerbook because I was getting tired of having the PB regularly compiling overnight. This kernel version is the one I've backtraced to by looking at my comments log and stabilization changelogs)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potuz
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@bertaboy: thanks for your comments, I actually read your thread on this issue (it is linked in my very first post on this thread) but for some reason 2.6.31-r6 (which did not have the patch to adt746 by the way) did not solve things for me. The module is not mantained anymore (I contacted the original coders) but in my case I am sure it is a Hardware issue. lubricating the fan I got to have a system that stabilizes at 65 now on Performance, which is acceptable for me (I guess it could be better had I known that these use thermal pads instead of thermal paste).

By the way, the same question I asked you on your thread: could you get the nvidia-based ppc to suspend to RAM? is it even possible?

@gringo: I find little to no use to the on-demand governor, specially cause I would use kind of the opposite to ondemand given the thermal issues of this machine. Next time I compile I kernel I'll let you know if it works in this one though.

Cheers,

R.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bertaboy
l33t
l33t


Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potuz wrote:
By the way, the same question I asked you on your thread: could you get the nvidia-based ppc to suspend to RAM? is it even possible?


That's something I haven't played around with too much yet. Since switching to FC, my PB stays running when I shut the lid, but I'd imagine that suspend-to-ram is possible with the Nouveau drivers. I took a look on their status and can't find anything which says that they're limited to suspend-to-disk, but I didn't look for very long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Massimo B.
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1563
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No news about the issue about this kernel module and the second fan?
I think about setting a minutly cron job checking if temperature is too high and setting temporarilly
Code:
echo -30 > /sys/devices/temperatures/limit_adjust
just to start the second fan.
_________________
ppc:PowerBook5,8 15"(1440)-G4/1.67,2G|amd64:HP EliteBook 8560w,i7-2620M,16G|Acer Z5610 (Core2QuadQ8200),8G|amd64-prefix:OpenSuse|HP EliteDesk 800G1 i7-4790|HP Compaq Pro 6300 i7-3770
Lila-Theme
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo on PPC All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum