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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not stable? Well, there's your reason I'm not pushing it. :) I'm also glad I'm not the only one that noticed how not-so-great the .37 family appears to be.

Does anyone have a link to any articles about it? I'd like to know more about anything that improves performance.

Cheers,
Pappy
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to publicly thank Quatrerwin for his recent donation to the site. I've updated the Above and Beyond page to reflect his donation.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
raj7095 wrote:
its pretty stable in 2.6.38, except if gnome-screensaver starts up and firefox is still on, then everything freezes and you have to restart your display manager.


well so it's NOT stable ;)

are the devs aware of this issue ?

I got the exactly same error with the latest available THP for 2.6.37-rc* and when running seamonkey-bin

don't remember the error message anymore but working with it is a no-go with opensource drivers due to KMS: black screen with error message/BUG ;)

afaik I also got it when compiling Android & having overcommit activated in the kernel (for java)


i don't think devs are aware of this issue. i searched it on google and it didn't return a single hit which included both thp/transparent hugepages and gnome-screensaver. i am not surprised since the kernel is still young and not in any n00b distros with thp enabled by default yet, plus to encounter this problem, the victim has to enable thp on always and he must have gnome as his desktop environment. so, it makes sense why no one has reported this problem yet. and pappy, you requested an article about transparent hugepages, so here it is: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_transparent_hugepages&num=1
the discussion for this topic: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?27644-Speeding-Up-The-Linux-Kernel-With-Transparent-Hugepage-Support
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raj7095,

Thanks for that article. I'll have to look that up in the kernel and see what it does. Since I'm always looking for the next thing that will give more zing to my machinery, I have a feeling I might include this as a setting in the next round of updates, assuming it lives up to the hype. Since I don't use GNOME, I shouldn't have an issue. Cool!

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now, for lots of seeds. I've just uploaded .configs for 2.6.32-gentoo-r28, 2.6.32-gentoo-r29, 2.6.32.35, 2.6.32.36, 2.6.33.9, 2.6.37.6, 2.6.38-gentoo-r1, and 2.6.38.2 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Cheers,
Pappy
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just uploaded .configs for 2.6.32-hardened-r43 and 2.6.38-hardened in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy! Not as many as yesterday, but if you like hardened-sources, you should be happy.

Cheers,
Pappy
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be switching my hosting plan to a VPS, possibly with VR (I'm still looking). VR offers support for Gentoo hardened, which would be an opportunity for me to play with it, since I have no reason I know of to use it at home.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use hardened, as it opens some really icky cans of worms. Perhaps one of these days, I'll play with a hardened machine just to see how much "fun" it is.

Cheers,
Pappy
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed that 2.6.37-zen has done away with legacy firewire support. For me, that means if my firewire mixers won't work with what 2.6.37 does, I'll have to freeze my DAW at 2.6.36 permanently - or until I get an interface that works with newer kernels. 8O

EDIT: That turned out to be moot. Half of it wouldn't do what I was expecting on this particular machine. I'm going to see what happens with 2.6.36_p2, and if that fails in exactly the same way, I know I missed something. If not, then I guess 2.6.37 has issues, at least with me.

EDIT II: I was able to copy my existing config from 2.6.36_zen1 to zen2 and have something that worked, but not from zen1 to 2.6.37. I have to wonder if this is just me or if there are known problems with this kernel version.
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Last edited by audiodef on Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I can access kernel-seeds.org from one machine but not from another. On the one I can't reach it with, absolutely everything else I try to reach in URL-land works. :?:

EDIT: Now I can't reach kernel-seeds.org, period. :cry:
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

audiodef,

Try one of the mirrors. Pappy has been having connectivity issues. The mirror at http://62.3.120.142/~pappy may be down too.
Its in my garage and we have had two power cuts tonight.

kernel-seeds.bloodnoc.org is in a UK data center. That should be good.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to be back now. It's nice to know that there are multiple mirrors for the seeds, though. :D
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see I must have done something wrong. I finally got around to installing a 64-bit Gentoo on a free partition and 2.6.37 works fine on a fresh install. Just have to include the right drivers for my wonky I/O. 8)
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I was right the first time. There's either a bug in 2.6.37 or the config is so fundamentally different that it just bjorks on my system because I haven't found something I needed to switch on.

I'll post my working 2.6.36 and non-working, but as far as I can tell correct 2.6.37 configs - both x86_64 - in a bit. Maybe Pappy can tell me what, if anything, is wrong with the 2.6.37 config.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a nutshell, I've noted that the .37 series is buggy...seriously buggy. When I come up with segmentation faults from simply booting the kernel, I tend to look askew at the thing which seems to be the cause of the trouble. I noted instability with both the vanilla and the zen versions.

When I back away from a kernel source, it's usually because there are serious issues. With the .37, after using three differing .37 versions, I just went back to the .36 and .35 families, as they were both fairly stable for my machines.

The .38 family seems to be a step up. It seems fairly stable on both machines running it. I've only seen one problem with .38, and since the machine that has an issue with it is currently headless due to flaky video card issues, that problem isn't a problem since X won't work on that machine...currently.

Cheers,
Pappy
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the site, if it says it's down, try the reload button a few times. The IP address has been stable for the past month, so the only thing I can think is that the host service isn't doing DNS properly.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Papy

Do you have created seeds for servers ? Or can you give me some advices on the options I should take care in my config ?

Thank you !
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
In a nutshell, I've noted that the .37 series is buggy...seriously buggy.


Good, it's not me going crazy, then! :P
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, kernel 2.6.37 and 2.6.35 are very buggy.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

22decembre,

Technically speaking, all the seeds are ready for use with servers. Since I make the seeds as generic as possible, that allows the seed to be used for anything, once you get the machine running.

As for extra settings needed in the seed, that would depend on the programs you are going to use. For example, if you wanted to run iptables, look up iptables with google. You will find articles about the extra settings you'd need to turn on or modulize in order for iptables to work.

If you opt to use the hardened sources seeds, you will have to set the extra security measures. The seeds are set minimal as far as security goes.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audiodef,

I usually judge how good a kernel source will be by seeing how long it takes from the initial "stable" release to that version plus one. It took over a month to go from .37 to .37.1. I knew that was a bad omen. And now, after some time, I see the omen was not only bad, it was accurate.

When .38 went to .38.1 in less than a week, I figured .38 would be much more stable...which, it so happens, is the truth. All the machines running .38 are doing so rather happily, even the file server.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pappy_mcfae :

As I understand, you only provide generic seeds, usable for desktop, server, dev or any other use. I already have read many articles about the softwares I run on my server and use the concerned options. But, as I am not so qualified as I would need to build a fully stable server, I was in hope someone could give me some directions to server seeds.

Options in kernel config seems to be really amazing to me, and I always wonder which to choose, apart from those I am really sure (I mean I know I need ipv6, iptables, nfs and so on... but the others are quite labyrinthic !). In same time, I wonder why nobody has already written a program in order to create a .config just right upon the hardware recognised by the system (this will solve at least half of my scares !) !

May I ask kindly why you publish your seeds, as you said it to be generic ?

Plus, can you explain your point of view upon the time of releasing kernel from .38 to .38.1 (for example). This really interests me !

Cheers.
Thank you.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Audiodef,

I usually judge how good a kernel source will be by seeing how long it takes from the initial "stable" release to that version plus one. It took over a month to go from .37 to .37.1. I knew that was a bad omen. And now, after some time, I see the omen was not only bad, it was accurate.

When .38 went to .38.1 in less than a week, I figured .38 would be much more stable...which, it so happens, is the truth. All the machines running .38 are doing so rather happily, even the file server.



Hm, I would have guessed the opposite, figuring that if something works, it would be a while before it got upgraded.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

22decembre wrote:
Pappy_mcfae :

As I understand, you only provide generic seeds, usable for desktop, server, dev or any other use. I already have read many articles about the softwares I run on my server and use the concerned options. But, as I am not so qualified as I would need to build a fully stable server, I was in hope someone could give me some directions to server seeds.


It's a fairly simple affair to set the kernel to what you would need for the options you desire. Kernel configuration is complex, but with a bit of study, and a web site opened next to your kernel configuration program, it's easy. Google is definitely your friend. Also check the Gentoo Documentation Page. It will also have any extra settings you would want or need for whatever programs you want your server to use.

Quote:
Options in kernel config seems to be really amazing to me, and I always wonder which to choose, apart from those I am really sure (I mean I know I need ipv6, iptables, nfs and so on... but the others are quite labyrinthic !). In same time, I wonder why nobody has already written a program in order to create a .config just right upon the hardware recognised by the system (this will solve at least half of my scares !) !


Someone effectively has, but that's used in Windows. There has been talk of making such a thing happen with the kernel, but doing such a thing would still leave you wanting to know more about what you need to setup. Not only that, with the way the kernel changes, keeping a program in step with the output of all the different kernel source producers would be crazy-making. On those days where everyone and his brother is releasing source, it's all I can do to keep up and make sure I don't forget something.

Quote:
May I ask kindly why you publish your seeds, as you said it to be generic ?


When I first got involved with Gentoo Linux, there was either genkernel, or the hit and miss potential involved in properly setting the kernel to boot the system on which it resides. After spending a lot of time working with my own kernels, I began to get a sense for what would and what wouldn't allow the computer to run as quickly as possible, and what would and wouldn't stop a computer from booting in a timely or proper fashion. Out of this research, I formulated a generic kernel setup that would allow for basic operation once the user added their hardware devices and file system choices.

After I while, I began offering my .configs to others.

The generic nature of the settings means that if you use a seed, you don't have to fret about every setting as the most important ones were set for proper operation. Using my seed, once you set your hardware options, the other kernel options are set such that you should boot properly the first time you try after you set up the seed properly.

Once you have the system booting, you can tweak, add and subtract options, and experiment with what will and won't work for your system(s). If you have a firm base to fall back on, adding extra settings is less hit and miss.

Quote:
Plus, can you explain your point of view upon the time of releasing kernel from .38 to .38.1 (for example). This really interests me !

Cheers.
Thank you.


It's more of an observation. On kernel versions where there are a lot of bugs coming out of the chute, it seems that there is more time spent fixing the bugs for the next version, thus drawing out the time kernel-dot-org takes before it releases the next in line. With the .24 kernel, there were numerous problems concerning networking, especially wireless. The .24 version lasted to 2.6.24.6, or something else ridiculously small. The .25 family fixed many of those issues, which is why it lasted longer and has more family "members". The .27 became one of the most stable releases, which is why there are fifty-eight versions of the .27 kernel. The .33 family is headed in that direction as well, once again for it's rock-steady stability.

On all the versions that proved to be less than stable, there was a longer period of time between releases. On the versions that are stable, the releases are more regular and frequent.

On the .37 kernel, 2.6.37 came out, and it was over a month before 2.6.37.1. Considering the errors I personally saw using .37 version kernels, I moved back to the .36 family, as that family has proved to be fairly stable in its own right. It took another while before 2.6.37.2, which is the last version I tried before deciding that .36 was a better source over all.

These are all personal observations about the kernels and the problems I've seen reported with them. It's not built on anything other than educated speculation. When you work with kernels on an almost daily basis, you tend to pick up on things.

Cheers,
Pappy
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Last edited by pappy_mcfae on Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audiodef,

Yes, it's very counter intuitive. Whenever kernel-dot-org has a problem child, they spend a lot of time fixing it up. I think it all really depends on the number of bugs, and their severity. I figured the fact that three different systems were coming up with three distinctly different segmentation fault errors in /var/log/dmesg was very telling when it took that month to release the next in line. All those errors going away when running .26 kernels let me know that the kernel was indeed the issue.

Cheers,
Pappy
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