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Rukie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: Growing a Raid 5 system -- best DIY NAS Reply with quote

Hey guys,
I just bought a new system and I'll be throwing together an 80gb drive (for the OS), and 3 1tb drives. The system will be able to expand to 15 drives total. I just can afford 15 drives right now. So, I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle this. I've looked at unRaid, Openfiler, FreeNas, and I still love gentoo... It'll be a headless server just chilling holding movies and mp3s and software (I've copied every videogame I've ever bought and stored it....). So my question to you incredibly brilliant men (and women) is how do you grow your storage solutions while keeping some sort of parity?

I currently have a little mythbuntu machine holding a 1.5tb drive, a 750gb, a 500gb, a 250gb, and 120 gb drive and I'll want to move everything to the new machine (storage wise), then maybe move the 1.5tb, the 750gb, and the 500gb over.

So.. thoughts? comments? Thanks.

Regards,
Rukie
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Last edited by Rukie on Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lvm?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lvm is not needed. As always: you can always just add a device to an md raid. But with everything past 5 drives you really should use Raid6 and not 5. With TB drives maybe even with 5...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what O.S. do you think I should go with.. Opensolaris with ZFS or just stick with gentoo and raid5? (Can raid5 be upgraded to 6?) or a dedicated NAS system (i.e. freenas). I love playing with linux but I want a low maintenance system with easy expandability.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you set raid up. You don't have to do anything. You can even let mdadm sent you a mail in case a drive dies. You can go from raid5 to raid6.

ZFS is fucking slow.

And Slowaris is famous for two things:

fucking slow
and
fucking slow
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I shall stick with gentoo? :-D
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not?

cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4]
md5 : active raid1 sdb2[0] sdf2[1]
830278202 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]

md4 : active raid1 sdb1[0] sdf1[1]
146479542 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]

md1 : active raid5 sdc3[1] sde3[2] sdd3[0]
78123904 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [3/3] [UUU]

md2 : active raid5 sdc5[1] sde5[2] sdd5[0]
39069824 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [3/3] [UUU]

md3 : active raid5 sdc6[1] sde6[2] sdd6[0]
843813888 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [3/3] [UUU]

md0 : active raid1 sdc1[1] sde1[2] sdd1[0]
64128 blocks [3/3] [UUU]

and there is zero maintenance going on. If a disk fails, postfix will drop me a mail into my inbox.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solaris is fine, but it looks like Oracle is going to let OpenSolaris die. The OpenSolaris board is going to evoke a clause which gives control of OpenSolaris back to Oracle on Aug. 23rd. So far Oracle hasn't been talking to them at all (which is what led to the Aug 23rd decision).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Solaris is fine, but it looks like Oracle is going to let OpenSolaris die. The OpenSolaris board is going to evoke a clause which gives control of OpenSolaris back to Oracle on Aug. 23rd. So far Oracle hasn't been talking to them at all (which is what led to the Aug 23rd decision).


you are behind the news. Go to phoronix ;)
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Rukie
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what do you guys use for your NAS solutions?
Edit:
Gentoo with which packages?
Or
FreeNas
Openfiler
ClearOS (formerly ClarkConnect)
OpenSolaris (zfs/pools I don't understand it...)
unRaid ($$, no way..)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still get lvm involved even if it's on top of RAID. I've found it TREMENDOUSLY handy when dealing with storage, from just partitioning things to migrating from old storage onto new, etc. Making storage pools that abstract and flexible is just a really powerful tool.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree LVM can be very powerful, but I'm trying to minimize complexity as much as possible. This system is going to sit until I buy additional hard drives. So.. the fewer commands it takes to go from 3 drives to 4, the better. At the time I buy more drives, I'll surely forget whatever commands there are to add a drive.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rukie wrote:
I agree LVM can be very powerful, but I'm trying to minimize complexity as much as possible. This system is going to sit until I buy additional hard drives. So.. the fewer commands it takes to go from 3 drives to 4, the better. At the time I buy more drives, I'll surely forget whatever commands there are to add a drive.


Code:

mdadm --add ...
mdadm --grow ...


look that one up. read it and understand it. make your gameplan accordingly. LVM is there if you need it, but it isn't necessary. Once you grow the md device, you need to grow the filesystem. that is obviously filesystem specific. `resize2fs' is what you want for extfs.

There we go, I think I basically just repeated what energyman said.

then serve up all your crap with samba or something. thats it. read about proper md maintenance (scrub drives, spares whathaveyou).

edit: it is irrelevant that you want to 'remember' the commands. that is what man pages are for. I never remember the commands to do any mdadm stuff, but I know where to find them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now if I stick with raid5... all the drives have to be the same size?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Go to phoronix ;)
Yummy. Ad laden text, my favorite. No thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rukie wrote:
Now if I stick with raid5... all the drives have to be the same size?

no, but the overall size will be (n-1)*smallest drive (n is number of drives).

there is a fine wikipedia page on raid levels and their nuances.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
Go to phoronix ;)
Yummy. Ad laden text, my favorite. No thanks.

yeah phoronix is a visual cluster fuck.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shickapooka800 wrote:
Rukie wrote:
Now if I stick with raid5... all the drives have to be the same size?

no, but the overall size will be (n-1)*smallest drive (n is number of drives).

there is a fine wikipedia page on raid levels and their nuances.


So there isn't a *need* for them to all be the same drive, but its a waste of space if they are different sizes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vputz wrote:
I'd still get lvm involved even if it's on top of RAID. I've found it TREMENDOUSLY handy when dealing with storage, from just partitioning things to migrating from old storage onto new, etc. Making storage pools that abstract and flexible is just a really powerful tool.


until some lvm update breaks stuff.

First rule of reliabiliy: reduce complexity.

And lvm is fucking complex.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
vputz wrote:
I'd still get lvm involved even if it's on top of RAID. I've found it TREMENDOUSLY handy when dealing with storage, from just partitioning things to migrating from old storage onto new, etc. Making storage pools that abstract and flexible is just a really powerful tool.


until some lvm update breaks stuff.

First rule of reliabiliy: reduce complexity.

And lvm is fucking complex.

I'd agree with this. LVM is good if you don't have a game plan and you could see yourself needing some extra partitions suddenly. my NAS box (a thecus device) uses LVM but it doesn't seem to use it for anything that it offers. it's just there as an extra layer.
the fact is that you can grow, migrate, and add devices to an mdadm+filesystem setup. if you aren't going to use snapshots or encryption, I can't find a strong argument for LVM. data integrity can be maintained by scrubing your raid array periodically.

Also I will point out that it is very likely that if you incrementally add drives from 4 to 15, one at a time (as in add one, grow fs, repeat at a later time), you may fail one of those along the way. so budget accordingly. at 4 you can have a raid6 if you choose.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with TB drives you should go Raid6 as soon as you have 5 drives anyway. Sure, more overhead. But usefull overhead that will surely rescue your poor ass from the hell of a failed raid rebuilt because one block on a drive fails while the raid is recovering from a dead drive.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard raid10 or 1+0 is much faster and more stable than raid 5 or 6. Plus if you use raid10 then you can use btrfs....I had great success with mine so far.

P.S. if you get a a set of drives they run much better if their all the same. I have 3 WD 500gb blue on raid 0 (ya no redundancy...you wanna fight about it). But I would recommend 1TB spinpoint F3. Those are the best value by far.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why should Raid 1+0 be faster? Or saver? Raid6 can recover from a block mismatch and choose the right data. 1+0 can't. Oh, it will choose one block but will it be the right one?

And yeah I know about that 'kill raid5' fud site.
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