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keet
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
Revert that and do 'systemctl enable dhcpcd.service'


Why should I do that? What is the difference? I think that I would rather put dhcpcd in each separate network service, so that I'll be able to stop and restart it for each interface.
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viralex
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now systemd is in the main tree but it is blocked by openrc....
I'd like to have both init systems :\
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viralex wrote:
Now systemd is in the main tree but it is blocked by openrc....
I'd like to have both init systems :\


It just require OpenRC 9999. Last time I've checked 9999 did not blocked systemd.

I guess it will be unblocked after next OpenRC release.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're waiting until OpenRC 0.8.3 before unmasking, so that systemd and openrc could be installed side-by-side ;)

If you want, you can install openrc-9999 for now.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks! I'll wait ;)

Etal wrote:
They're waiting until OpenRC 0.8.3 before unmasking, so that systemd and openrc could be installed side-by-side ;)

If you want, you can install openrc-9999 for now.
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Etal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sys-apps/openrc-0.8.3 is now in portage :D
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody has managed to use plymouth with systemd successfully? The version of plymouth on the tree (0.8.3) is broken (doesn't show anything and hangs on plymouth-quit), and if i bump it manually to the git version it works on shutdown and the plymouth-quit hang is gone, but still doesn't work at all on bootup. :(
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking at taking the plunge with systemd, and have a few questions.

At present, it looks as if I can do the job with a few simple additions to /etc/portage/package/keywords :
=sys-apps/openrc-0.8.3* ~amd64
=sys-apps/systemd-29* ~amd64
=sys-kernel/linux-headers-2.6.38* ~amd64
=dev-lang/vala-0.12.1* ~amd64
=sys-fs/udev-171* ~amd64

That last one scares me, because udev frequently seems to be picky and problematic. In this case, I'm worried about "/run". It looks to me as if udev-171 may require that /run exist, where previous versions would use it if it did, and use the old way (/dev/.udev) if it didn't. It looks as if this is also part of the reason for needing openrc-0.8.3, as well. I don't have /run on my system, and checking bugzilla, it looks as if it may be part of baselayout-2.0.4, which isn't even into portage, yet.

In other words, this doesn't look doable without a little manual hacking. Is it as simple as "mkdir /run" as root? If my system were to then upgrade to baselayout-2.0.3, which is currently ~arch, would it then dutifully remove /run and make my system unbootable?

Next, it looks to me as if I could emerge all of this stuff, and simply keep running sysvinit/openrc as-is. The systemd stuff would sit there for the moment, unused, while I made sure that the rest of it is all playing well together.

I've glanced at the systemd wiki, and it looks more like someone's "diary of migration". I get the distinct impression that the first foray into systemd might be to simply enable openrc. Kind of a null use of systemd, but a baby step. Which brings up the question. The obvious thing would be to start by activating lowest-level plumbing in systemd. As it's activated in systemd does it have to be removed from openrc, or are the openrc startup scripts smart enough to know that the work has already been done?

I'm thinking in terms of 2 grub entries, one with good old sysvinit and one with systemd, and it seems like it would be nice to be able to boot back and forth for a bit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
In other words, this doesn't look doable without a little manual hacking. Is it as simple as "mkdir /run" as root?

Jup
depontius wrote:
If my system were to then upgrade to baselayout-2.0.3, which is currently ~arch, would it then dutifully remove /run and make my system unbootable?

/run only contains temporary files and runtime data.
Usually there's a tmpfs mounted at /run

depontius wrote:
Next, it looks to me as if I could emerge all of this stuff, and simply keep running sysvinit/openrc as-is. The systemd stuff would sit there for the moment, unused, while I made sure that the rest of it is all playing well together.

Jup

depontius wrote:
I've glanced at the systemd wiki, and it looks more like someone's "diary of migration". I get the distinct impression that the first foray into systemd might be to simply enable openrc. Kind of a null use of systemd, but a baby step. Which brings up the question. The obvious thing would be to start by activating lowest-level plumbing in systemd. As it's activated in systemd does it have to be removed from openrc, or are the openrc startup scripts smart enough to know that the work has already been done?

Huh?
If you start openrc it will run the usual initscripts.
If you start systemd it will run the systemd service files.
You never have both running at the same time.

depontius wrote:
I'm thinking in terms of 2 grub entries, one with good old sysvinit and one with systemd, and it seems like it would be nice to be able to boot back and forth for a bit.

Jup
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depontius
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:

depontius wrote:
I've glanced at the systemd wiki, and it looks more like someone's "diary of migration". I get the distinct impression that the first foray into systemd might be to simply enable openrc. Kind of a null use of systemd, but a baby step. Which brings up the question. The obvious thing would be to start by activating lowest-level plumbing in systemd. As it's activated in systemd does it have to be removed from openrc, or are the openrc startup scripts smart enough to know that the work has already been done?

Huh?
If you start openrc it will run the usual initscripts.
If you start systemd it will run the systemd service files.
You never have both running at the same time.


There's a section in the wiki called "OpenRC Compatibility" that suggests, "Enable the OpenRC service to initialize the openrc enviornment:". Reading on in that section, it looks like you can mix'n'match - within limits.

For now it looks to me as if I want to get /run in place, do the package upgrades, and make sure it all still works under OpenRC. I think I might well upgrade to baselayout-2.0.3 so that no further upgrades can happen until baselayout-2.0.4, which is supposed to properly support /run. Just out of curiosity on the mount, what sort of options should I be using? Right now I have:
Code:
shm         /dev/shm   tmpfs      nodev,nosuid,noexec   0 0
run         /run      tmpfs      defaults                      0 0

I modeled the /run line off of /dev/shm. On another system, the first parameter is "none", so I figure it's a don't-care. Can the permissions on /run be tightened down, as they are on /dev/shm? I presume it can't have "noexec", and maybe it can't have "nodev", but I presume it can keep "nosuid"?

While we're talking mounts, I don't notice anything in the wiki about making sure "cgroup" is mounted in /etc/fstab. Is this handled by magic, or is something missing?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
There's a section in the wiki called "OpenRC Compatibility" that suggests, "Enable the OpenRC service to initialize the openrc enviornment:". Reading on in that section, it looks like you can mix'n'match - within limits.
Uh ok. Can't say anything about that because frankly I don't see the point in mixing them.

depontius wrote:
For now it looks to me as if I want to get /run in place, do the package upgrades, and make sure it all still works under OpenRC. I think I might well upgrade to baselayout-2.0.3 so that no further upgrades can happen until baselayout-2.0.4, which is supposed to properly support /run.

I think you're making this much more complicated than it is.
It's a directory. If it exists programs can put stuff there. If it doesn't exist, then … not.

depontius wrote:
Just out of curiosity on the mount, what sort of options should I be using? Right now I have:
Code:
shm         /dev/shm   tmpfs      nodev,nosuid,noexec   0 0
run         /run      tmpfs      defaults                      0 0

I modeled the /run line off of /dev/shm. On another system, the first parameter is "none", so I figure it's a don't-care. Can the permissions on /run be tightened down, as they are on /dev/shm? I presume it can't have "noexec", and maybe it can't have "nodev", but I presume it can keep "nosuid"?

On gentoo systemd does two things: mount /run as a tmpfs (because that makes sense), bind mount /var/run to /run.
If you want the same behaviour under openrc, the settings for /run are
Code:
tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=755)

For details see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/146976

depontius wrote:
While we're talking mounts, I don't notice anything in the wiki about making sure "cgroup" is mounted in /etc/fstab. Is this handled by magic, or is something missing?

Jup, magic.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:

There's a section in the wiki called "OpenRC Compatibility" that suggests, "Enable the OpenRC service to initialize the openrc enviornment:". Reading on in that section, it looks like you can mix'n'match - within limits.

That's outdated and should be removed. (It applied to the systemd in the user overlay)

OpenRC 0.8.3 specifically checks if it's running and aborts if it isn't.

depontius wrote:

For now it looks to me as if I want to get /run in place, do the package upgrades, and make sure it all still works under OpenRC. I think I might well upgrade to baselayout-2.0.3 so that no further upgrades can happen until baselayout-2.0.4, which is supposed to properly support /run. Just out of curiosity on the mount, what sort of options should I be using? Right now I have:
Code:
shm         /dev/shm   tmpfs      nodev,nosuid,noexec   0 0
run         /run      tmpfs      defaults                      0 0

I modeled the /run line off of /dev/shm. On another system, the first parameter is "none", so I figure it's a don't-care. Can the permissions on /run be tightened down, as they are on /dev/shm? I presume it can't have "noexec", and maybe it can't have "nodev", but I presume it can keep "nosuid"?

While we're talking mounts, I don't notice anything in the wiki about making sure "cgroup" is mounted in /etc/fstab. Is this handled by magic, or is something missing?


You don't actually have to do anything - systemd does it all by itself. You don't even need to create /run since it's created when systemd is installed.

Code:
$ equery b /run
 * Searching for /run ...
sys-apps/systemd-29 (/run)

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depontius
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etal wrote:

You don't actually have to do anything - systemd does it all by itself. You don't even need to create /run since it's created when systemd is installed.


Will a tmpfs entry in /etc/fstab for /run causing any problems? ...or a bind-mount entry for "/var/run -> /run" ?

I've booted the system twice now under systemd, and notice a few things...
- Running "systemctl" shows a lot of stuff, all of which is either active or exited. It doesn't appear to show me things that I may choose to activate.
- I have no "eth0" device, only "lo". In the systemctl list, there was a line for the ethernet card, but perhaps that was just the hardware, not the network connection.
- It started up to a text console, which I expected. Since running systemctl doesn't show me stuff to add, I don't know how to start gdm. (startx works)
- Logging is to the console. There are lines in systemctl output relating to logging, but apparently not syslog-ng.

I see the website listing available services, but haven't done enough work yet under systemd to know what extra service stanzas are already installed or where they are located. I suppose I'll get there, at the moment I'm finding that getting from a booting system to a usable system is the hard part.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
Etal wrote:

You don't actually have to do anything - systemd does it all by itself. You don't even need to create /run since it's created when systemd is installed.


Will a tmpfs entry in /etc/fstab for /run causing any problems? ...or a bind-mount entry for "/var/run -> /run" ?

It probably won't. I was just saying that it already takes care of that kind of stuff.

depontius wrote:
I've booted the system twice now under systemd, and notice a few things...
- Running "systemctl" shows a lot of stuff, all of which is either active or exited. It doesn't appear to show me things that I may choose to activate.

You can run "systemctl --all --full" (all to show all available units, and full to not show '...'s)

depontius wrote:
- I have no "eth0" device, only "lo". In the systemctl list, there was a line for the ethernet card, but perhaps that was just the hardware, not the network connection.

If you use DHCP, you can run "systemctl enable dhcpcd.service ; systemctl start dhcpcd.service" - the service file should be installed with dhcpcd (if not, re-emerge it).

depontius wrote:
- It started up to a text console, which I expected. Since running systemctl doesn't show me stuff to add, I don't know how to start gdm. (startx works)

Not all packages provide service files yet. You can find them online, for instance here. Then, drop it into /etc/systemd/system/ and enable/start it.

depontius wrote:
- Logging is to the console. There are lines in systemctl output relating to logging, but apparently not syslog-ng.


depontius wrote:
I see the website listing available services, but haven't done enough work yet under systemd to know what extra service stanzas are already installed or where they are located. I suppose I'll get there, at the moment I'm finding that getting from a booting system to a usable system is the hard part.

The system-installed services are in /lib/systemd/system/ and user-installed ones are in /etc/systemd/system/.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etal wrote:

You can run "systemctl --all --full" (all to show all available units, and full to not show '...'s)
...
If you use DHCP, you can run "systemctl enable dhcpcd.service ; systemctl start dhcpcd.service" - the service file should be installed with dhcpcd (if not, re-emerge it).
...
Not all packages provide service files yet. You can find them online, for instance here. Then, drop it into /etc/systemd/system/ and enable/start it.
...
The system-installed services are in /lib/systemd/system/ and user-installed ones are in /etc/systemd/system/.


I think this is most of what I need to know, thanks. I probably could have found most of what I needed eventually, but this gets me along faster. In particular, your link to service files looks better than the one I had.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just be aware that those are for Arch, so some may be doing some Arch-specific things.

There's some very good documentation here:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-docs.html

I'd especially suggest reading "systemd for Administrators #3" since it explains the basics of the Unit files (The rest are interesting to read too)

Also, systemd comes with a lot of nice man pages (such as systemd.unit and systemd.service)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing with dracut + systemd + plymouth ( + gdm transition) and have now a fully working setup with a few patches, tweaks and new units. All based off git versions, without openrc. Currently I'm mostly auto-patching, but I'll get it all rolled into an overlay, who should I poke to get my changes into the systemd overlay repo?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is anyone collecting the various bits'n'pieces, or even the information necessary to make Gentoo systemd-ready? For instance, I've found that I could go to ~arch to get systemd-ready versions of consolekit and dhcpcd. I've had to go to one of the outside links to get *.service scripts for other things, and still don't have everything I need. For instance, I've found various pieces of nfs, but from what I can tell there may be nothing there for a nfsv4 client. (and maybe this is a difference between Debian nfs-common and Gentoo nfs-utils.)

It would be nice to have a sticky to start collecting this information to help others play with the migration. For my part, I have my system able to run, but not what I'd consider usable as-normal. It's currently something to play with, and OpenRC is for getting things done.
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