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ManDay
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on the specific services and also the system it is ran on. On an SSD, for example, I take it, the limiting factor is the duration one process in a (due to dependencies) chain of processes takes to finish its initialization, while on a HDD, most of the time might be spent loading the process.

rc_parallel parallelizes (so I've understood) individual chains of dependencies, but these chains remain serial in themselves, which only systemd can solve.

rc_depend_strict is an ugly hack to bypass dependencies in an unsupported fashion, is it not? (I have not concerned myself with the details, I must admit)

I've heard people say great things of systemd, so perhaps Gentoo should consider the possibilty that OpenRC is obsolete, maybe. I, personally, can't stand OpenRC, it's practically nonexistant documentation and its lack of advancement. It may work just all-right in practice, but I think its rotting somewhere in the past and doesn't move on, regardless of how promising it may have seemed at first.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
cgroups complement the features of fork to control and keep track of the initiated tree of processes. A task which early unix developers didn't think of?

Seems openrc has that too now: http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2011-10.html#e2011-10-19T15_11_02.txt
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keet
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used Systemd for a while on my computers, and they did boot rather quickly; I could go from the G.R.U.B. screen to Openbox with a few programs started (including typing my username and password and running startx manually) in about 24 seconds. I had one or two bugs on each computer -- and they were different on each one, so I reverted to OpenRC, since I don't mind waiting five or 15 extra seconds for a computer to boot or shut down.

Good luck, though.
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ManDay
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is one reason for why I think OpenRCs parallelism is too simplified and got stuck in the past, compared to systemd: Even with rc_parallel, the login prompt won't appear before the net.* interfaces have been brought up completely and the hostname is set.

This really bothers me, net.* are the by far most obvious example for services that have not only no further dependencies but are completely irrelevant. Yet, they are services and run serially at the end and do not allow to login until they have completely finished.

If OpenRC fails to properly parallelize things as simple as that, I see no hope for its capabilities at all.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think openrc is to blame there alone, it's the dependency chain dictated by the init scripts - I'm sure you could do some tweaking there for your system. Not that I care for a few seconds less.
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mv
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManDay wrote:
Here is one reason for why I think OpenRCs parallelism is too simplified and got stuck in the past, compared to systemd: Even with rc_parallel, the login prompt won't appear before the net.* interfaces have been brought up completely and the hostname is set.

This really bothers me, net.* are the by far most obvious example for services that have not only no further dependencies but are completely irrelevant.

If they are irrelevant for you, you must configure them that way (e.g. you can drop oldnet and use the extremely fast network initscript instead): In general, they are not completely irrelevant, because the login must know the hostname, and the hostname is obtained only by dhcp in many setups, so the order dhcd->hostname->login is unavoidable, in general.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The login prompt works fine without any network connection or hostname on my netbook, apart from cosmetic issues.

If anything actually needs a hostname in the login process, you can set a default one in the kernel, /etc/conf.d/hostname, define 127.0.0.2 in /etc/hosts, or autogenerate one using some means and put it in one of those static files (Ubuntu for example just generates a name from /sys/class/dmi/id/board_name). There's no need to bring up network interfaces for the majority of those.
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mv
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
The login prompt works fine without any network connection or hostname on my netbook, apart from cosmetic issues.

If you do not care about these "cosmetical issues" you can override the dependencies and do not need to wait for net. As a default for the whole distribution, this choice is not the best, since it is better if things at startup "just work" - finetuning can be done by the user.
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tranquilcool
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

systemd works fine for me.
only problem is that i can't get dspam to start.
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ManDay
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
(e.g. you can drop oldnet and use the extremely fast network initscript instead)


Please provide a link.
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mv
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManDay wrote:
Please provide a link.

Probably there is no link. The only documentation is in /etc/init.d/network and /etc/conf.d/network
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pigeon768
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManDay wrote:
Yet, they are services and run serially at the end and do not allow to login until they have completely finished.
FYI - ifplugd skips right around this issue. I believe the installation guide recommends installing ifplugd. No configuration is required, just 'emerge ifplugd'.
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