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john.newman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Why are there these alternatives to portage/emerge? Reply with quote

So for a while now on these forums i'm seeing people mentioning these programs like "eix" and "plaudis" (and a few other things i don't recall) as replacements for portage or emerge. I can't see why anyone would want to do that, as portage and emerge I think work pretty damn well. As far as a package manager goes what more could you want...

Can anyone breifely explain what these alternatives are, why they exist, e.g. why are they are so much better than portage, and if it is actually worth our time doing any further research and the work to implement them in our gentoo installs?

it just seems odd to me... i always thought portage was pretty decent - once used properly. i'm just wondering if i'm missing out on something or if this is just hot air from the community
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avx
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eix doesn't replace emerge/portage, it's just another way/replacement, to search for stuff in the tree. In comparison, `emerge --search` is pretty slow and doesn't have the feature set, eix delivers.

As for pkgcore and paludis, they've been created in a time when there wasn't much development (visible from the outside) in emerge. While both are compatible (mostly) to emerge, they also have another featureset and aren't Gentoo exclusive, ie. paludis is the default in Exherbo.

Both are good, but likely not interesting, if one doesn't have special needs. To get more info, you should look up there project-/manpages.

In short, it doesn't harm that these things are in existence, in general, competition is good. If you don't need it, there's nothing to worry.
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Gusar
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is there emacs and vi? Why is there KDE and Gnome? Why is there Firefox and Chrome?

The answer is simple: So we can have flamewars! 8)
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john.newman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avx, thank you for the detailed response. So portage is still prefectly fine and don't bother. If you dont know what it is - you probably don't need it. That's about what i figured and I just wanted to make sure.
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ultraincognito
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the paludis is more comfortable than the emerge/portage.
I don't know how that's now but earliest the emerge/portage wasn't able to count inverse dependences unlike the paludis.

Happy paludis user.
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proteusx
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to list packages installed from a given overlay, e.g. kde-sunset.
Which of the above can do this and how.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proteusx wrote:
I want to list packages installed from a given overlay, e.g. kde-sunset.
Which of the above can do this and how.

Paludis:
Code:
cave show '*/*::kde-sunset->installed'
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smartass
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proteusx wrote:
I want to list packages installed from a given overlay, e.g. kde-sunset.
Which of the above can do this and how.

I recommend eix, but it's just an indexed package database fronted, not an actual package manager.
This will do what you want
Code:
 eix --installed-from-overlay kde-sunset

See eix -h or eix(1) for more :)

Edit: @Ant P: just curious, would eix be faster than paludis or does paludis also cache?
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
Edit: @Ant P: just curious, would eix be faster than paludis or does paludis also cache?

Paludis can search with or without a cache; I don't know about eix but this one takes a few minutes to update. Some numbers:
Code:
~ $ alias cave-search='cave search --index ~/.cave-index'
~ $ cave manage-search-index --create ~/.cave-index; echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; command time cave-search paludis; command time cave-search paludis
...
4.66user 0.05system 0:10.57elapsed 44%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 284784maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (171major+20828minor)pagefaults 0swaps
...
4.59user 0.06system 0:04.66elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 284800maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (0major+21000minor)pagefaults 0swaps


(this one is heavily biased in emerge's favour since it can't search all of layman:)
Code:
~ $ echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; command time emerge -S paludis; command time emerge -S paludis
...
162.86user 13.82system 7:02.99elapsed 41%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 888640maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (64major+39371400minor)pagefaults 0swaps
...
33.34user 1.73system 0:35.11elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 885936maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (0major+58524minor)pagefaults 0swaps


Code:
~ $ echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; command time cave search paludis; command time cave search paludis
...
39.09user 0.22system 5:22.84elapsed 12%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 1200816maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (168major+77962minor)pagefaults 0swaps
...
36.10user 0.29system 0:36.62elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 1200832maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (0major+78129minor)pagefaults 0swaps
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jdhore
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
smartass wrote:
Edit: @Ant P: just curious, would eix be faster than paludis or does paludis also cache?

Paludis can search with or without a cache; I don't know about eix but this one takes a few minutes to update. Some numbers:
Code:
~ $ alias cave-search='cave search --index ~/.cave-index'
~ $ cave manage-search-index --create ~/.cave-index; echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; command time cave-search paludis; command time cave-search paludis
...
4.66user 0.05system 0:10.57elapsed 44%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 284784maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (171major+20828minor)pagefaults 0swaps
...
4.59user 0.06system 0:04.66elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 284800maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (0major+21000minor)pagefaults 0swaps


(this one is heavily biased in emerge's favour since it can't search all of layman:)
Code:
~ $ echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; command time emerge -S paludis; command time emerge -S paludis
...
162.86user 13.82system 7:02.99elapsed 41%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 888640maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (64major+39371400minor)pagefaults 0swaps
...
33.34user 1.73system 0:35.11elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 885936maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (0major+58524minor)pagefaults 0swaps


Code:
~ $ echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; command time cave search paludis; command time cave search paludis
...
39.09user 0.22system 5:22.84elapsed 12%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 1200816maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (168major+77962minor)pagefaults 0swaps
...
36.10user 0.29system 0:36.62elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 1200832maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (0major+78129minor)pagefaults 0swaps


To bring eix to this party:

skyrim ~ # echo 3 | tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; time eix paludis; time eix paludis
...
real 0m1.516s user 0m0.050s sys 0m0.040s
...
real 0m0.079s user 0m0.050s sys 0m0.020s
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dol-sen
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Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 2803
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

proteusx wrote:
I want to list packages installed from a given overlay, e.g. kde-sunset.
Which of the above can do this and how.


If you have gentoolkit installed, then you can use equery to get a lot of different info from your system.
In this case you would use equeries "has" module which searches your installed pkgs. The data name your looking for "repository" and the value to match.
Code:
equery has repository kde-sunset

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