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Xarik
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: [Simple Question] possible to install without .. [SOLVED] Reply with quote

Hi,

Is that possible to install Gentoo without physical access over an existing distribution ?

And if it's possible how ?


Thanks


Last edited by Xarik on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: [Simple Question] possible to install without physical a Reply with quote

Xarik wrote:
physical access over an existing distribution ?

What does this mean?
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Xarik
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for my bad english

here's the thing:

i've access to a server via ssh with debian installed on it
i've no physical access to the server
i want to know if it's possible to remotely (via ssh) install gentoo on this machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In principle yes, if there's a free partition on the disk and you have root access. You can log into the Debian environment via ssh and then do the installation steps on that partition.

However, you have to make sure to do everything correctly, e.g. setting up the bootloader and the ssh server in the Gentoo environment, so that when you reboot into Gentoo you can still log in remotely!

Can I ask what your ultimate purpose is? There may be better solution.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if i've no free partition possible or not ?


Quote:
Can I ask what your ultimate purpose is?


Just curiosity for the moment, but for later (if possible or not) install Gentoo on dedicated server hosted by a provider who does not offer the possibility to install Gentoo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xarik,

How big is your swap partition and how much RAM do you have?

If swap is big enough, you can nuse this for your gentoo root filesystem, do a bare minimal install there and when you can boot into it, wipe out debian so you can do the rest of the install.

There are two risky bits - you only get one go at the install, or you won't have remote access.
Wiping out debian and possibly redoing the boot loader. Again, this has to be right first time.

You might want to look at Gentoo PREFIX, which allows you to install Gentoo in say, /home/xarik and you don't even need root access.
However, you cannot boot into a prefix install, as far as I know.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xarik wrote:
And if i've no free partition possible or not ?

Provided there's other partitions besides the Debian root partition, you could try to resize those partitions from inside Debian, and create space for a Gentoo partition.

This is much easier if the Debian setup is using LVM -- you could just create a new volume for Gentoo.

Without LVM, you have to be able to re-partition the disk without while running it -- I've never tried that.

Another option is install Gentoo inside of a loopback device and see if you can boot into it.

Quote:
Just curiosity for the moment, but for later (if possible or not) install Gentoo on dedicated server hosted by a provider who does not offer the possibility to install Gentoo.

Hmmm ... usually they provide a hypervisor -- their Debian doesn't have KVM support?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@NeddySeagoon:
the server as 3GB DDR2 of RAM and 1024KB of Swap, but i've 1To of spacedisk maybe i can resize some paritions for increase the swap size ?


Last edited by Xarik on Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Hypnos: The Debian installed is Debian 6.0.0 and no LVM and no KVM support
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you post the output of "df" on the machine? If there are separate partitions for things like /home maybe you could move those files to the root partition, and then use that space for Gentoo.

Like NeddySeagoon and I have said, you have to get the bootloader configuration right otherwise you won't be able to boot into Debian, and the ssh configuration so you can log into Gentoo remotely once it's booted.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:

Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md1             480000384 122342128 333275608  27% /
tmpfs                  1547188         0   1547188   0% /lib/init/rw
udev                   1542192        88   1542104   1% /dev
tmpfs                  1547188         4   1547184   1% /dev/shm
/dev/md0                194366     23312    161019  13% /boot


The machine have 2x500GB HDD in RAID Soft
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xarik,

Loads of room!

Fail one half of the raid1 array, so Debian runs on the degraded array.
Remove the failed drive from the array and install Gentoo to the 'failed' drive.

You will now have Debian on a degraded raid1 and a single drive install of Gentoo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so if i understand well for the installation, i just need to follow the handbook but from the #4 chapter (Preparing the Disks) ?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is possible, I have actually got someone to a bootable system when they are on Oz but they had booted the CD and didn't mind scrubbing the entire HDD.
1ft away or 10,000 miles doesn't make that much difference.

From an already booted system... sure why not EXCEPT partitioning... you need a blank partition or means to make a partition LVM would allow that but anything else it might not be possible


although if they are using grub2 or anything else that can boot off an iso you may stand a chance
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I understand.

So if I reinstall debian and keeping free disk space, from debian I can make new partition "/" "/boo"t and "swap" for gentoo and install gentoo from debian in following the handbook ?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You shouldn't have to do anything to the Debian install.

Just take one of the two disks out of the RAID array, and install Gentoo on that.

Yes, you can do all the installation steps from inside Debian.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
You shouldn't have to do anything to the Debian install.

Just take one of the two disks out of the RAID array, and install Gentoo on that.

Yes, you can do all the installation steps from inside Debian.



Ok and after i've installed Gentoo i can put back the (old)debian disk in the RAID array without problem ?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That disk never leaves the RAID array.

I think what NeddySeagoon has in mind is:

Right now you have a two-disk RAID array. You just remove one disk using mdadm, and use that one for Gentoo. Debian continues to live on the RAID array, it's just that when you're done the RAID array will only have one disk.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be sure I remove all partition from the first (for example) disk and install gentoo on it ? Ok but after the second disk (with debian partition) I do what with ?


My purpose is to have only gentoo on the machine and no need debian, debian is here only because my provider don't provide gentoo install
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you have no plan on using it then format it post-boot.
just make sure you don't boot to debian and ask it to repair the array :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
if you have no plan on using it then format it post-boot.
just make sure you don't boot to debian and ask it to repair the array :)


Ok I do a little summary for install Gentoo from Debian on my server to be sure I've well understood:

1 - boot on debian
2 - format raid #1 and install gentoo on it following the handbook from the #4 chapter
3 - boot on gentoo
4 - format raid #2 (old debian)
5 - ask gentoo to repair my raid

(The # of raids are just for example)

is that right ?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ponder another question: if I don't format the debian partition, it's possible to keep one raid for gentoo and one for debian ?

That is just by curiosity
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xarik,

Not quite.

Before you do any formatting for gentoo, you must take one of the drives away from debian.
Exactly how you do that depends on who the raid1 is made up. It may be two or more rais sets.

Whay does
Code:
less /proc/mdstat
show?
Mine shows
Code:
 Personalities : [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4]
md127 : active raid5 sda6[0] sdd6[3] sdc6[2] sdb6[1]
      2912833152 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [4/4] [UUUU]
     
md126 : active raid5 sda5[0] sdd5[3] sdc5[2] sdb5[1]
      15759360 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [4/4] [UUUU]
     
md125 : active raid1 sda1[0] sdd1[3] sdc1[2] sdb1[1]
      40064 blocks [4/4] [UUUU]
     
unused devices: <none>
so I have three raid sets. You need to pick a drive from you two, say /dev/sdb and use mdadm to set its partitions to failed in each raid set it appears in. Then you use mdadm to remove the partitions that you just marked failed.
This leaves debian on a degraded mode raid1. Thats fine its supposed to work that way.

Now that debian is no longer using /dev/sdb you can install Gentoo on it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cat /proc/mdstat of my server:

Code:

Personalities : [raid1]
md1 : active raid1 sda2[0] sdb2[1]
      487652992 blocks [2/2] [UU]

md0 : active raid1 sda1[0] sdb1[1]
      200704 blocks [2/2] [UU]

unused devices: <none>
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xarik,

Thats most of the information. Now, where is swap. Its a really bad idea to destroy an inuse swap.
Code:
fdisk -l
will tell.

If you will install Gentoo on /dev/sdb, you must fail both /dev/sdb1 and /dev/sdb2 before you start, so Debian does not try to use them.
IF there is swap space on /dev/sdb too, you must turn that off.
Code:
swapoff /dev/sdb...

Next, delete all the partitions on /dev/sdb and turn swap back on again.
Code:
swapon -a
should do.

If you get an error about missing swap, edit /etc/fstab to remove the /dev/sdb.. swap entry.
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