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hubertnnn
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Joined: 26 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: First gentoo, gnome and absolutly no systemd Reply with quote

Hi, I was using Arch linux for some time and since they moved to systemd a year ago, I got so pissed off with how slow, buggy crap that is, I just wanted to change to any other distribution just to get rid of this crap. And today is the day. I decided to choose gentoo. The only problem is, I like gnome, I tried kde and some of the not well known interfaces, and I would like to stay with gnome interface (even 3.6 is fine). I read a bit and found that even on gentoo if I want to have gnome 3.8+ I need systemd, but the newest informations I found were from 2012 so they are over 1 year outdated now.

My question is, if something changed since that time, maybe there is some kind of compatibility layer between OpenRC and systemd, or a way to install it without systemd needed.
If not then, how should I do the installation, or in details:

1. Should I use profile "desktop" or "desktop/gnome" ?
2. Should I add "-systemd" to USE to block that crap
3. Should I do "emerge gnome" or "emerge gnome-3.6*" or something else
4. Do I need to use stable or unstable builds (I havent found anything about that in handbook yet, but those forums about gnome 3.6 told something about using unstable files)
5. Is there anything else I should know before I start
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Maitreya
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want gnome go for the desktop/gnome profile. These are only handy presets. You can get to a gnome system on base profile too.
Set the useflags to "-systemd -systemd-units openrc" for good measure.


ATM 3.8 is in ~amd64 so you will have to mask the packages if you want to stick to 3.6. Don't know if it's needed tho.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hubertnnn,

Welcome to Gentoo.

Gnome upstream have deceided to require systemd. From 3.8 there is really no other option.
Well there is ... give up Gnome.

Staying with Gnome 3.6 is not easy - I did make a half hearted attempt but its not a long term solution.

Your choice is Gnome and systemd or openrc and anything except Gnome. Thats a choice Gnome is forcing on distros/users, not the distros.
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Maitreya
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow I didn't know it was that far already!
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use GNOME, but I noticed the following thread in these forums recently. Does the procedure in that thread not work any more, then?: Gnome 3.8 without systemd
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hubertnnn
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Its not that I want to stick to 3.6, I just found that 3.6 is the last version that do not require systemd.

How do I create a mask, handbook only says what each of premade masks means, but not how to create one custom. I guess man emerge will have more details, but I would prefer to get some more info before I loose access to my firefox and wipe all hdds.

An example command would be nice.


edit:
Fitzcarraldo wrote:
I don't use GNOME, but I noticed the following thread in these forums recently. Does the procedure in that thread not work any more, then?: Gnome 3.8 without systemd

I can try it, but will this work, will I be able to suspend my computer using this "hacked" gnome 3.8?

edit2:
I read it again more carefully and it seems to make everything work, so I will try that solution, thx for help. If you will have some better Ideas, I wil still like to hear, as they say, Man learns all life :). Just need to finish my backups and on monday I will welcome gentoo and write if it worked or not.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The systemd dependency was a hard dependency for a while, but that has loosened up; it is in theory possible to run it without systemd, but in practice, you're on your own if you go down that way. It involves several hoops to go through (patching, trying different versions, ...) and even if you're through that you might not see everything working. As long as not a team of users and/or devs come together to collaboratively make a fork, this manual tedious approach is your only option...

So, yeah, you're standing for quite a big choice here; embrace systemd, ditch GNOME 3.x or try to get it working in an unsupported manner.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hubertnnn,

example command
Code:
nano /etc/portage/package.mask

<Enter list of package atoms to mask>

Now it gets hard because this list will grow with time. Also, package versions that you needed one day will be removed from the tree the next. Long term,

Patching Gnome to not depend on systemd was discussed on the -dev mailing list but it would be a large and ever growing burden on the devs. There could be no long term support for this.
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hubertnnn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently I am after reboot after the chroot part of installation and I am stuck. While in chroot everything was fine but after reboot the console font became huge, its like one or 2 sentences on whole screen, its hard to do anything, whats more, my network died, ifconfig is showing only loopback, both wired and wireless cards are missing

Edit:
I did the etc/init.d/net.enp7s0 file
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gnome 2 is good sauce, but since gnome 3 is garbage, xfce4 is better sauce ;-)
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hubertnnn wrote:
Currently I am after reboot after the chroot part of installation and I am stuck. While in chroot everything was fine but after reboot the console font became huge, its like one or 2 sentences on whole screen, its hard to do anything, whats more, my network died, ifconfig is showing only loopback, both wired and wireless cards are missing

Edit:
I did the etc/init.d/net.enp7s0 file


Font is huge because you might be missing framebuffer support and/or the necessary kernel parameters (vga=...); for this to work, I suggest you to follow a framebuffer guide.

Two sentences on the whole screen sounds odd though; haven't heard of that yet, is it a smaller monitor?

As for network, make sure you enable the OpenRC init script (`rc-update add net.enp7s0 default`) and have /etc/resolv.conf copied (or filled in again) from the non-chroot.

You can go back on the installation medium, mount and chroot (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot) and improve the situation from there if it is tedious to do it on the live install.
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Clad in Sky
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you like Gnome 3 but not systemd, you might try Cinnamon. It's Gnome 3 with a Gnome 2 like interface. Since version 2 it is independent of Gnome 3, though, and does not require systemd to be installed.
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