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szatox
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, but I only have 8 Gigs.

Code:
# mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /var/tmp/portage/ -o size=85%
# df -h | grep portage
tmpfs                         6.3G     0  6.3G   0% /var/tmp/portage

You're welcome
You can even cover more than 100% of your RAM with ramdisks and it will not crash your system unless you actually try to use all that space. And if you tried, it would most likely report no space left on device instead of crashing anyway.


Quote:
For those who says that microns means nothing in terms of performance: (...)

You forgot to add that smaller transistors are more vulnerable to all kinds of noise, so you will get random errors in lower temperatures. Going down is double-edged sword.
I'm not saying you will encounter those erros. Exacly the same goes about performance gain. It is possible, but it's just a wrong marker.
You don't care what is possible, you care what you will actually see. Don't look at MHz or um, benchmarks will give better info even though they are not 100% accurate.


edit: 1clue, of course you're right about /usr/portage and /var/tmp/portage. Kind of mistake you make when thinking about something else. Fixed, thanks


Last edited by szatox on Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1clue
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Quote:
Are you using tmpfs for /var/tmp/portage? That's a huge speedup.


Yes, but I only have 8 Gigs. Allocating 4G for /var/tmp/portage isn't enough for Firefox. Temps do get high (gnome-sensors-applet) under sustained world building using tmpfs, but no shutdowns. I'm running at stock 3.2GHz with the stock cooler, a Seasonic power supply and lots of 80mm case fans in an antec tower case. The BIOS is set to run all fans at top speed. I've got three WD hard drives. CPU temp right now is 86 degrees F. I need to clean dust out. The downstairs computer dropped ten degrees after blowing it out. My video card is a basic 8400GS, not much thermal load. I don't game and my eyes are bad. I don't need a better card. I really just bought it because the onboard video had driver trouble.

@krinn

Same performance for virtually the same price, so where is the big Intel advantage? It's at the top end where the prices are obscene. BTW, I would never spend $300 for a CPU unless inflation gets a lot worse. Witness my interest in the $50 CPU.


It sounds crazy, but what I do is this:

  1. RAM=12g
  2. swap=24g, 2 partitions of 12 on 2 drives.
  3. tmpfs on /var/tmp/portage can be 6, I haven't run into anything that can't happen in that.
  4. tmpfs is handled by swap code.
  5. swap code is very, very good at figuring out what should be in RAM and what should be on the disk with minimum speed issues.


I have allocated more tmpfs than RAM, but not with my current setup. I have gone months without ever touching swap. tmpfs doesn't automatically allocate however many gigs of RAM, the size option says what the max size should be. Now this box handles VMs so I hit swap every now and then.

@szatox,

Why would you put /usr/portage into tmpfs? That should be persistent. /var/tmp/portage is what you want as tmpfs, it's just scratch space for builds and is deleted anyway.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm! Thank you! I'll try 6 gig tmpfs, after all, in the worst case I would still have 2G memory, sufficient to run Gentoo, but maybe slow.
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1clue
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you wind up in that situation, then rm -rf /var/tmp/portage/* and the system will reclaim that space.
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Polyatomic
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
System uname: Linux-3.15.6-ck1+-x86_64-AMD_FX-tm-9590_Eight-Core_Processor-with-gentoo-2.2


Happy with my AMD man. People on irc say its a nice space heater, I don't know why the temps do not go over 35 degrees Celcius _yet_ . Anyway take it easy maybe I'll see you round.
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Cyker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tricky choice; Typically Intel chips are faster, but AMD has some minor niceities that I tend to stick with them.

I tend to prefer AMD, originally because their motherboards were much better (HyperTransport vs GTL+) but since Intel copied that too with the i-series that's no longer such an issue.

There is less variance with features on AMD chips; I remember with Intel you literally needed a chart when buying one of their CPUs because a higher numbered part could actually be slower and/or have less features (Virtualization features in particular) than a lower-numbered part, whereas with AMD the lines are much clearer.

Another nice thing with AMD was it was very easy to hack the cool'n'quiet tables to undervolt/underclock the CPU, which made for good power and heat savings.

I just moved from an Socket 939 Opteron 180 to an FM2+ Kaveri 7850K and it's doing pretty well so far; I just need to wait for the kernel to catch up and support my mobo sensors as it uses a new IO chip that is un supported so I don't have any heat sensors or fan control support ATM! (eek!)

(Although, in hindsight going for an APU was a bit stupid since it turns out I can't actually use it since this is a headless server. I thought I'd be able to use OpenCL and VirtualGL to take advantage of it, but all the GPU stuff needs an Xserver running, which this system can't have because it has no head! *doh!*)
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szatox
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I thought I'd be able to use OpenCL and VirtualGL to take advantage of it, but all the GPU stuff needs an Xserver running, which this system can't have because it has no head! *doh!*)

Er? You have GPU, so it doesn't seem THIS headless. You don't need monitor for GPU to work. Is there something else I'm not aware of involved?
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just moved from an Socket 939 Opteron 180 to an FM2+ Kaveri 7850K


I want to upgrade my file server which is a 939 Athlon4600+ dual core with onboard nvidia video. I'm looking at an A10-5800K Trinity quad core or an FX-4300 Vishera quad core. I don't like the cheap motherboards that I see from Gigabyte or Asus (the only brands I'll consider) and i5 3570 is too expensive for a budget server. Also I don't like that people are saying the AMD quad cores are really dual-cores. I'd like something that can do system updates without waiting overnight and for under $300 for CPU, mobo, and memory. Willing to give Intel another cahnce but need price and performance. On board graphics are OK because this is a file server in the basement, not a gaming machine. I've got an old $84 Hitachi CRT that is mostly turned off.

What's your experience and would you do it again differently?
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vaxbrat
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:16 am    Post subject: Good and No Reply with quote

If you take a look at this wiki entry I did on Ceph, you will notice that it is entirely AMD based:

http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Ceph

That includes an A10-7850K Kaveri that I have running as an object store. I've since re-arranged things a bit, but haven't updated the wiki. I'm up to 6 nodes by adding another FX8350 and A10-7850K. The new Kaveri is acting as a DNS, MON and MDS server. The cluster is up to over 50tb worth of storage and I wouldn't do anything differently. Other than adding the two new nodes, I've kicked performanced up quite a bit by moving the journals to use my SSD based system drives.

The file server stuff is right up AMD's alley and I wouldn't have done anything differently.
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Cyker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Quote:
I just moved from an Socket 939 Opteron 180 to an FM2+ Kaveri 7850K


I want to upgrade my file server which is a 939 Athlon4600+ dual core with onboard nvidia video. I'm looking at an A10-5800K Trinity quad core or an FX-4300 Vishera quad core. I don't like the cheap motherboards that I see from Gigabyte or Asus (the only brands I'll consider) and i5 3570 is too expensive for a budget server. Also I don't like that people are saying the AMD quad cores are really dual-cores. I'd like something that can do system updates without waiting overnight and for under $300 for CPU, mobo, and memory. Willing to give Intel another cahnce but need price and performance. On board graphics are OK because this is a file server in the basement, not a gaming machine. I've got an old $84 Hitachi CRT that is mostly turned off.

What's your experience and would you do it again differently?


My main problem was finding a microATX mobo that had AT LEAST 8 SATA sockets (The old system had 2 IDE and 5 SATA + 1 eSATA!) for all my RAID disks.

The move from 32 bit to 64bit has been a lot smoother than I anticipated; I'm glad I waited as many years as I did, as the 64-bit side of Gentoo is about as stable as the 32-bit side now and the emul-linux stuff works pretty well for the few things that don't have 64-bit parts. (Bloody Canon printer drivers!).

I'm massively glad I'd documented EVERY step of the build when I made my old server as I was able to use that to build this one (esp. as I had a lot of "WTF is this thing and why is it configured like this!?" moments when porting /etc over!)

So far the Kaveri has been nice and quick and runs fairly cool. Going from 4GB to 16GB RAM is really nice too :D

I just need to figure out how to port my K8-series CnQ hacks over to undervolt and underclock the CPU, and also wait for lm_sensors & kernel support for the temp sensors and fan controls!
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depontius
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also into the market for a new computer. However for me the considerations are quite different. This might be just another desktop computer, in which case most anything will do. However my job (actually my entire area at my current imployer) is a bit unstable at the moment - it may continue for time unknown, we may get sold, or we may just get shut down, in which case I'll be retired. So this may be my "retirement computer", in which case the requirements become significantly different. There are certain things I don't really feel like doing at home while I'm doing them for work, but I suspect that once retired I'd like to do more exploration in those directions - keep my feet wet, play, etc.

So if this is a "retirement computer" some of the things I'll want to do:

fpga programming - This is really pretty basic, and shouldn't need more than a regular deskside computer.
simulation - This is where things get rough. I'd like to play with some simulation, both physics and electrical. I'd probably want to start with off-the-shelf simulators, but I'd like to get into writing my own, at some point. When I say physics, I mean a few things, like the flight of a model rocket, and the motion of electrons inside a vacuum tube.

Someday I'd like to think in terms of some really BIG simulations, so I'm thinking in terms of maxing out on the DRAM and OpenCL and/or HSA. Which brings it all back to Intel vs AMD. First things first, when I said BIG I'd like to be able to get to 64G on the motherboard. For at least now, that rules out Haswell and means going back to Ivy-Bridge or IvyBridge-E. (I've done stuff here at work that needs that kind of RAM, so I do have at least some idea of what I'm talking about with 64G.)

Next, I found some Intel vs AMD / CPU vs OpenCL vs HSA benchmarking. Basically from a floating point CPU viewpoint, Intel mops the floor with AMD, but I think that was pretty well known. On the OpenCL side it looked like either was capable of roughly a 2X speedup. I would have expected AMD to pick up more than Intel from OpenCL, and perhaps it did, but not enough to regain a lead.

Then there was HSA. The Kaveri went from consistently slower than the Core-I5 to blowing its doors off - 5X faster than the I5's best. However there was only one HSA benchmark that showed results like this. I have no idea if it's because HSA is so new that it's not much well-written code has been done yet, or if that one benchmark was super-synthetic and had no relation to any sort of real usage. I've been familiar with vector processing with scientific computing in the past, and know that the "gather/scatter problem" prevented vector processors from helping as much as we would have liked. It seems to me that HSA ought to go a long ways toward mitigating that problem, so I can readily believe that at some point it should show really good numbers.

Plus this may not be my "retirement computer" after all, and I may have many more gainfully employed years ahead. So I'm hedging my bets here... I'd like to get in cheap, yet be able to enhance. A few notes along that line...

It's quite expensive to even get a foot in the door with Intel. A 64G-capable board means Core-I7, and CPU+board we're talking $500-$600. OTOH it has 8 memory slots, so it can be fully populated with 8G DIMMs to get the max RAM. Out of the door, CPU-only or CPU_OpenCL, it's the fastest option - at a price.

A top-end Kaveri CPU+board will run a bit over $250, a less than half of the Intel solution. But it only has 4 DIMM slots, so it will take 16G DIMMs in order to fully populate. It might mean getting "throwaway" memory for now, getting the real memory closer to real need.

Sometimes simply explaining to others helps one see the correct solution. At the moment, this may or may not be a "retirement computer". At the moment the future of HSA is unclear, but if it comes to fruition it could be really good for my anticipated future workload. At the moment, Kaveri + "throwaway RAM" gets me something fully adequate for me needs now, for not too much money If I'm completely wrong on HSA, it's also not too much to completely replace at some point.

I'm curious about anyone else's take on this...
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1clue
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're getting pretty far afield of the OP's 2 core solution, but I definitely feel the same pain as depontius and Cyker.

Really, what I need is pretty simple:

  1. Screaming fast CPU non-overclocked CPU with a bunch of cores
  2. Screaming fast disk (faster than sata3, probably pci-based ssd)
  3. RAID (not necessarily screaming fast, could be spinners)
  4. Screaming fast networking
  5. A lot of monitors.
  6. Not necessarily all on the same box.


For me, I want a couple KVM/QEMU boxes for VMs (maybe a 3770 with 32g) and another box for a workstation that has lots of screen real estate, all hooked together with preferably better than 1gbps networking.

I need a rock solid development environment with the ability to model an enterprise class server and stay in the same order of magnitude for speed. I also want failover on the vm side.

Oh yeah, cheap would be nice.

Simple, right? :D
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sums up the difference between Amd and Intel, from my 33 years of experience modifying/building systems, is this.

Amd is a bigger pipe that flows slower.

Intel is a smaller pipe that flows faster.

Put each respective hose each in a one gallon bucket. The Amd bucket will fill before the Intel bucket.

Just because the water is coming out of the hose faster, does not mean you are getting more water. But it is a great advertising gimmick that the majority falls for.
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szatox
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure about that that bucket-filling speed, but pipes from AMD are much cheaper.

However, since we came to the topic of personal mainfraimes, maybe it would be a good idea to consider ARMs as well? You know, those tiny things without roadblocks inherited from x86 that nobody cares to write software for :)
Well, just and example. The point is there are also other architectures that are better for specific cases, and as soon as we want something else than a reagular desktop it might be worth at least brief consideration.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continuing the pipe analogy, my experience with ARM CPUs is that they're a small pipe that flows slow, and you'll be waiting forever for the bucket to fill... But if you only have a small cup to fill, then it may not matter...
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sinojos
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When mainstream arm processors get to 64bit, that may just make a cup overflow! RISC OS at 64bit would be simply awesome! Most people are not aware that RISC OS was the first desktop to do many things that eventually were copied in all later desktops. RISC OS was built for the ARM processor by the people that designed the ARM processor back in the early 80's. Do some searches, you will find that a number of things taken for granted, and attributed to m$ or apple, first appeared in RISC OS.

RISC OS is even speedy on a 700Mhz cpu, 256Mb of ram, raspberry pi. NO other OS can compete speed wise on an ARM processor. RISC OS is coming back!!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got ahead of my self, forgot to add, history gets re-written all the time, for example RISC OS. Along with who had the first publicly available 64bit processor, it was AMD. While m$ and intel have been under investigation by the US Attorney General for a number of years, as documents have surfaced that m$ and intel stopped mainstream computer builders (dell, compaq, etc) from putting 64bit AMD computers with Linux on the shelf. m$ and intel were roughly 1 year away from having a 64bit system, while AMD and Linux were already there.

Money, does a lot to re-write history and change mainstream thinking. Easy to do with kids just learning the ropes, but those of use who have been doing it for over 30 years, know better, as I had a 64 bit system (AMD & Gentoo) long before m$ and intel had 64bit on the shelf, yet listen to many people, and it is like AMD or Linux never existed until today.
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